MacDive Forums

My #1 need is a sync with Dive Log for iPhone, as mentioned here:
http://www.mac-dive.com/forum/posting.p ... ly&f=3&t=9

But there's a lot of other things I wish for MacDive, the most obvious being:

1. much easier way to see full dive info than hitting the (i) button. top pane should not just be temp/sac/air but also a window to all the other info. needs fundamental UI redesign for this.

2. ways to manually enter info not provided by computer. i don't have profile data for ANY dives to date, but plan to get a computer that works with MacDive. So all previous dives need ways to edit info if they don't import correctly. (which they should from Dive Log iPhone)

3. metric/imperial. one thing i wish for for ALL dive software (including Dive Log for iPhone) is to have individual metric/imperial displays for all relevant fields (weights, pressure, temp, etc.) data should be stored in either metric OR imperial but should be able to be displayed in either at any time. This has always bugged me with existing dive software.

4. dive operators and dive buddies should each be relational databases.

5. notes and photos should always be more prominent for recreational diving. for photos, link to iPhoto library.

That's all for now, will add more later perhaps.

Here's hoping for some of this to happen!

gajahduduk wrote:My #1 need is a sync with Dive Log for iPhone, as mentioned here:
http://www.mac-dive.com/forum/posting.p ... ly&f=3&t=9

This has been covered, a million times.

1. much easier way to see full dive info than hitting the (i) button. top pane should not just be temp/sac/air but also a window to all the other info. needs fundamental UI redesign for this.

There are a bunch of shortcuts (command + i, right click -> edit etc). I'm not sure a fundamental UI redesign is really necessary.

2. ways to manually enter info not provided by computer. i don't have profile data for ANY dives to date, but plan to get a computer that works with MacDive. So all previous dives need ways to edit info if they don't import correctly. (which they should from Dive Log iPhone)

What can't you enter ?

If you are talking about the raw profile data (samples, with time/depth/pressure) it seems highly unlikely you're actually going to edit that. Everything else you should be able to edit.

3. metric/imperial. one thing i wish for for ALL dive software (including Dive Log for iPhone) is to have individual metric/imperial displays for all relevant fields (weights, pressure, temp, etc.) data should be stored in either metric OR imperial but should be able to be displayed in either at any time. This has always bugged me with existing dive software.

For what reason? Just curious. There's also the "canadian" option, but I suspect you'd be in the minority people that want to mix things up much more than standard metric/imperial.

You can swap between in preferences at any time. How they're stored is an implementation detail.

4. dive operators and dive buddies should each be relational databases.

How do you know they aren't? Because buddies is. Well, a table, not a whole database. Operators is not. What it is underneath shouldn't concern you - what are you trying to do? Maybe we can figure out a solution.

5. notes and photos should always be more prominent for recreational diving. for photos, link to iPhoto library.

Photos are directly on the graph. They're pretty prominent Provided, of course, the exif matches. You can drag photos from iPhoto easily enough, so they're linked in a way.

It's mentioned elsewhere, but I said I would look at including a way to reference an iPhoto album rather than using the individual photos. It's still on the list.

nick wrote:

gajahduduk wrote:My #1 need is a sync with Dive Log for iPhone...

This has been covered, a million times.

Apologies, can you link to where? The link I provided discusses import/and export, I'm talking about field-by-field and record-by-record sync, as supported by Dive Log for iPhone, and as works with Diving Log for Windows. If that's actually now possible and I've missed it, great!

nick wrote: There are a bunch of shortcuts (command + i, right click -> edit etc). I'm not sure a fundamental UI redesign is really necessary.

What I see now is a big white space at the top pane that says "NO PROFILE DATA". I don't yet have a compatible computer. Even if I did, I don't really care that much about profile data, what I want to see right away are my notes and maybe photos. Plus it's a lot of exta key strokes (both to open and close and switch the tiny tabs). Why not just put a big tab bar at the top of the top pane, which would integrate all the profile mini-tabs and the info tabs. plenty of horizontal space there for it. then when clicking on a new dive in the list, the tab setting last used remains.

nick wrote: What can't you enter ?

You're right, sorry. I was looking a the summary tab on the info window. Obviously I can change info on other tabs, like general.

nick wrote:

gajahduduk wrote: 3. metric/imperial. one thing i wish for for ALL dive software (including Dive Log for iPhone) is to have individual metric/imperial displays for all relevant fields (weights, pressure, temp, etc.) data should be stored in either metric OR imperial but should be able to be displayed in either at any time. This has always bugged me with existing dive software.

For what reason? Just curious. There's also the "canadian" option, but I suspect you'd be in the minority people that want to mix things up much more than standard metric/imperial.
You can swap between in preferences at any time. How they're stored is an implementation detail.

Minority maybe but a very real need both for me and I suspect a lot of others who dive globally. I own an imperial gauge, but I prefer metric in general. I Sometimes I use mixed equipment. If I'm diving cold water it's usually with imperial weights, so I know I need 35 pounds with a dry suit. If I'm diving tropical in a shorty I know I need 7 kilos. But I may be using my imperial gauge or renting a metric one. I want to record and view with the equipment I actually used. I don't want to see a 59.06 foot max depth when I really want to see that I used 35 pounds in weight.

nick wrote:

gajahduduk wrote: 4. dive operators and dive buddies should each be relational databases.

How do you know they aren't? Because buddies is. Well, a table, not a whole database. Operators is not. What it is underneath shouldn't concern you - what are you trying to do? Maybe we can figure out a solution.

Well clearly both buddy and operator should be contact records that need to be entered once and can be re-used. Can view phone #s, emails, web sites, etc.

nick wrote:

gajahduduk wrote: 5. notes and photos should always be more prominent for recreational diving. for photos, link to iPhoto library.

Photos are directly on the graph. They're pretty prominent Provided, of course, the exif matches. You can drag photos from iPhoto easily enough, so they're linked in a way.

It's mentioned elsewhere, but I said I would look at including a way to reference an iPhoto album rather than using the individual photos. It's still on the list.

I have no profile data, what graph? On the info window on the photos tab, I at one point imported 1 photo to test with a demo and they have already lost their associations. All I see now is a blank document. If I double click it I get a blank HUD window with the correct file name as the window title.

I'm not sure what you mean by the matching exif. I assume you're referring to geolocation tagging somehow, but the camera I use surely doesn't support that.

I'll look forward to seeing the iPhoto linking. I think there's a pretty standard API for that.

Apologies, can you link to where? The link I provided discusses import/and export, I'm talking about field-by-field and record-by-record sync, as supported by Dive Log for iPhone, and as works with Diving Log for Windows. If that's actually now possible and I've missed it, great!

Do a quick browse of the forums for the many iPhone threads - "it's on the list".

What I see now is a big white space at the top pane that says "NO PROFILE DATA". I don't yet have a compatible computer. Even if I did, I don't really care that much about profile data, what I want to see right away are my notes and maybe photos. Plus it's a lot of exta key strokes (both to open and close and switch the tiny tabs). Why not just put a big tab bar at the top of the top pane, which would integrate all the profile mini-tabs and the info tabs. plenty of horizontal space there for it. then when clicking on a new dive in the list, the tab setting last used remains.

Ok, interesting. That's a drastically different use-case to the design of the app. The profile graph is really what its designed around. Of course, if you have photos linked up with it then they're there also, which would just leave notes.

Minority maybe but a very real need both for me and I suspect a lot of others who dive globally. I own an imperial gauge, but I prefer metric in general. I Sometimes I use mixed equipment. If I'm diving cold water it's usually with imperial weights, so I know I need 35 pounds with a dry suit. If I'm diving tropical in a shorty I know I need 7 kilos. But I may be using my imperial gauge or renting a metric one. I want to record and view with the equipment I actually used. I don't want to see a 59.06 foot max depth when I really want to see that I used 35 pounds in weight.

Fair enough. For weight at least, its not a field that is converted. It's free text. So you can enter whatever you like there. For reference, this was by common request, a while back.

Again maybe once you have a dive computer you won't care so much? I think pretty much all of them support choosing what units you want to use.

Well clearly both buddy and operator should be contact records that need to be entered once and can be re-used. Can view phone #s, emails, web sites, etc.

Buddies are auto completed from AddressBook, and further integration is on the cards.

I have no profile data, what graph? On the info window on the photos tab, I at one point imported 1 photo to test with a demo and they have already lost their associations. All I see now is a blank document. If I double click it I get a blank HUD window with the correct file name as the window title.

I'm not sure what you mean by the matching exif. I assume you're referring to geolocation tagging somehow, but the camera I use surely doesn't support that.

Right -

Well, first up, as you've probably noticed, MacDive isn't designed around manual entry. It's really an afterthought. It's something I will work on as I get time, but note that it's not the primary usage. Everything will likely make a lot more sense once you get a dive computer and transfer some dives over.

Back to photos, not geolocation, it's just based on time. Your camera will record the time the photo was taken, and this can be matched with the time your dive happened. Check the main site for screenshots, or the wiki for an explanation of the feature. Again it would make more sense if you had profile data, I think.

IF you have a blank document, maybe you added a photo then deleted it. By default, macdive will only reference the photo from its existing location. This is great for dragging from iPhoto or Aperture, for example. You can toggle a preference (under advanced) to import the photos, though this will explode your database size.

What doesn't help is there's currently an issue that is causing them to be larger than they need to, but that requires a major upgrade to address. It will come eventually, but I'd still recommend just referencing them where possible.

I'll look forward to seeing the iPhoto linking. I think there's a pretty standard API for that.

Not that I'm aware of. There are some third party frameworks to provide some form of integration (at least browsing iLife media), but I haven't checked their licenses. Maybe they added something in Snow Leopard, but that's of no use as I need to support 10.5 also.

Please note I'm not saying I won't change or address any of these issues, I'm just trying to highlight the fact that MacDive really is designed for logging information off your computer, not manually, and I think it would be worth trying it out as such to see if some of what I'm saying (or have done with the app) makes any more sense.

I've been meaning to manually enter the first few dives I did before I got my dive computer for about three years now.. One day..

Thanks for all the replies.

First off, I do have a dive computer, just not a supported one. I am still researching what's going to work. There will be few cases I will travel with a Mac, and when I do it will be a laptop that probably won't be running the main copy of MacDive. So my usage scenario will always be manually input basic data into iPhone. Then when I return home (maybe weeks later to main computer which would run MacDive), only then would I both sync to the iPhone, offload pictures, and offload computer data. So it would always be crucial to me to see what I put in the iPhone just as much as what my computer said.

I don't think that's an unrealistic scenario these days.

I note with regards to photos, say I did try to keep MacDive on a laptop and my desktop in sync. Wouldn't the links break in any case then, especially if there are separate iPhoto libraries? I see a rather big multi-device sync mess and I'm not sure what the solution would be.

With regards to buddies and AB, again, operators are just as important I think. In fact in most cases it's the operator who I might want to contact again, not some random buddy who happened to book the same day that I did. (Yes, sad fact of not actually living in a diveable area: Michigan!)

With regards to weights and free-form text, I would guess that if there were a reason for those requests before, it's similar to what I'm saying. Each field in preferences could have a default-unit-entry setting, and then each field within a record would have a switch for enter-in unit and display in-unit. These could be small buttons. Just an idea.

Even after I decide on a compatible dive computer, I may still on occasion use other equipment, or not bring a computer at all. (I often dive when abroad and diving is not the main reason I go abroad, so I don't take gear.)

And I have the issue of a couple hundred dives to import as well.

nick wrote: Not that I'm aware of. There are some third party frameworks to provide some form of integration (at least browsing iLife media), but I haven't checked their licenses. Maybe they added something in Snow Leopard, but that's of no use as I need to support 10.5 also.

I think you're right on this. You can either a) use apple events but this would require iphoto to be open, or b) parse the xml file.

but the work has been done by 3rd party frameworks as you say:

http://code.google.com/p/imedia/

open source, BSD license.

gajahduduk wrote: I don't think that's an unrealistic scenario these days.

Nope, it's more and more common I'd say - and it's exactly what is planned to be supported. It's coming! Bear with me.

I note with regards to photos, say I did try to keep MacDive on a laptop and my desktop in sync. Wouldn't the links break in any case then, especially if there are separate iPhoto libraries? I see a rather big multi-device sync mess and I'm not sure what the solution would be.

Indeed, this is a tricky thing. There are two real solutions that exist currently.

One, is that you use "store images", so that the images are loaded into the database. Then you copy the actual database back and forth.

The second, is that you still copy the database, but you make sure all of your images are in the same place. For instance, I prefer to keep all my macdive pictures under Pictures/MacDive Pictures. I export them from iPhoto or Aperture at the same size etc and keep my "final" versions there. Then you could have two repositories and just sync the pictures. It's not ideal of course, just a suggestion.

MacDive isn't a multi-system application, so this isn't a problem it deals with specifically.

With regards to buddies and AB, again, operators are just as important I think. In fact in most cases it's the operator who I might want to contact again, not some random buddy who happened to book the same day that I did. (Yes, sad fact of not actually living in a diveable area: Michigan!)

Yep, this is a very good point. I'll look at doing this in an update (database changes require a large update, they're not something done lightly).

With regards to weights and free-form text, I would guess that if there were a reason for those requests before, it's similar to what I'm saying. Each field in preferences could have a default-unit-entry setting, and then each field within a record would have a switch for enter-in unit and display in-unit. These could be small buttons. Just an idea.

But then you would end up with large amounts of preferences. I guess it could be worth an "advanced" units mode that lets you do this, though it requires a huge amount of code to change. Let me dwell on it - I have to see if it's really worth doing, or if other things will take priority.

And I have the issue of a couple hundred dives to import as well.

Manually? Or from some other data source?

gajahduduk wrote: I think you're right on this. You can either a) use apple events but this would require iphoto to be open, or b) parse the xml file.

but the work has been done by 3rd party frameworks as you say:

http://code.google.com/p/imedia/

open source, BSD license.

Yeah this is what I was thinking of at the time.

Apple Events are nasty, and having to have iPhoto open is not a decent solution. Relying on the iPhoto XML is barely better.