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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:48 am 
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Location: Nottingham, England
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I recently contacted Nick about being able to manually add information to MacDive that I thought would be helpful to me when recording my CCR dives. The subsequent exchanges identified that this was possible in a future update, but in order to avoid a unilateral suggestion, by me, of what would be desirable fields, then this should be put out to everyone who may want to use MacDive to record their Rebreather dives.

I'm not sure what the best way to do this is, but I thought if I started the ball rolling of what I'd like to see, then those interested could add to this on the forum so Nick could see what we would like, and more importantly what it is possible for him to make available.

So, here we go:

1 :Type of unit
2 :Cumulative time on CCR
3 :Total time on any given unit
4 :Stack usage time
5 :diluent and O2 start and end pressures
6 :diluent content; Air, Trimix and if Trimix what mix
7 :Bailout content (multiple bailouts allowed for, I thought up to a maximum of three BO's)
8 :Start and end set points, also deco set points if not same.

This list is not exclusive so please add what you think you'd like to see. Nick has suggested that Smart Logs are a solution to some of the cumulative time issues but the rest is for us rebreather types to ask if what we desire is possible.

Over to you guys......


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:49 am 
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Sweet! Could you do me a favour, though, and for each field include an example or two of the values you would want to record and what units they are in, etc?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:31 am 
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The cylinder pressures are like any other cylinder pressure, I prefer Bar but I guess some prefer PSI. Scrubber time I measure in hh:mm format, not sure what others think. When you ask for examples, can you specify what fields your interested in?

Trimix I guess works in an international format; ie 10/52 = 10%o2/52%he

I want other CCR divers to provide some input to Nick as I don't have a monopoly of good ideas or suggestions. Please speak up so everyone gets something that we can all use.

Regards,
Martin


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:36 am 
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All of them.

What about #1, "Type of unit" - what exactly is this? Is this just the model, or does it mean something else? I'm not a CCR diver, and I know very little about it - hence needing your help to work through what should be recorded etc. I would just like to be very clear on all of this information.

Back to the fields - what is "Stack usage time"? Etc. In fact, it would be good to have an explanation of what these mean, why you track them, etc etc. Excuse my ignorance :) I'm genuinely interested, on top of wanting to understand how to track them.

As another example, why do you track the total time on the device? Is this a requirement for further training or rental or some such? Just out of personal interest? Or..?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:12 am 
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OK, I'm conscious I'm the sole input at the moment but here goes.

I currently dive three models of CCR, obviously at different times. These are an APD Evolution, A VRT Ouroboros and occasionally a VRT Sentinel. Different models of CCR's that I call types. CCR divers for some reason prefer to measure their experience on a rebreather in hours on CCR rather than number of dives completed on a rebreather. I also like to break this down between the different rebreathers that I dive. Some people may regard "types" to mean electronic CCR (eCCR), Semi closed rebreather (SCR) and there are others....that's why I'd like others input to agree a consensus of what I/we mean!

The stack is the part that has the co2 absorbent in. Often sofnalime or sodasorb; other brands are available :D A freshly packed stack of new absorbent has a finite length of usage. The more time it is used in the water, the less effective it is over a period of time, in broad terms. For this reason CCR divers record how long a stack has been used for so they know when it is becoming less effective. For example, this could be three short dives of say 40 minutes each or one longer dive of 140 minutes. There are other factors involved here but I personally only want to record the time each stack has been in use for with 0 minutes for a newly packed stack that increases in minutes and hours in the water. Stack time is critical for safe rebreather diving, the longer the stacks been in use, the less effective it becomes, generally, and this varies between different models of rebreather as they don't all have the same amount of absorbent in their stacks. It's worth mentioning here that these are known by different names including scrubber as well.

Time on each device as you suggest is useful for training purposes and to just monitor your own progression on different rebreathers. For example, I had to complete 50 hours before I went from completing my MOD 1 (initial training on a rebreather) to starting my MOD 2 (normoxic Trimix) and then a further 50 hours before the next progression. I had to log theses dives/hours to prove the completion of them. I think some guys like to record their hours for bragging rights as well ;)

Hope that helps for now...nothing to do with ignorance, divings a big sport that's getting bigger on a yearly basis.....I remember when PADI wouldn't sanction dive computers, now they're growing in to rebreathers. Who'd ever believe it!

Shout or email when you want more.....but I hope others out there put their two penworth in.

Regards,
Martin


Last edited by Martin on Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:27 am 
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Ah this is great stuff, thanks!

Well - of course for the model, there is already a Computer field which should be ok, no? Plus you can add bits of Gear. So it would maybe be good to have type as semi closed, closed, etc.

I'll dig through my email - a few others have contacted me about CCR stuff so I'll see if they are interested in contributing to the topic. I made it sticky too.

The time is cool - I was meaning to add a "total hours" to the piece of gear under Gear, which means you could see how long each piece (and computer) has been used for. That's straightforward, in fact I can do it tonight and then it will be available in the next release which should be out shortly. Some of those things aren't rebreather specific and don't require changes to the data format, so they're very quick and easy to throw in for you.

It's also very easy to add a custom dive log for "Computer = Rebreather 1" or whatever, and then you have the ability to select that and view statistics for it - that has the total hours underwater too, along with all of the other information like temperatures, air used, number if dives, etc etc.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:55 am 
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Just a quick one before I turn in. A rebreather carries two different cylinders. One is pure O2 and the other is what we call dil or diluent. The fields for OC as they are in MacDive at present don't fit the ticket as both the O2 and dil reduce in pressure at completely different rates to an OC diver and the two cylinders reduce at different rates to each other. Although supplying the one breathing loop, both cylinders provide a different function. It's not unusual for a small 2 ltr O2 cylinder to last for a weekend dive trip depending on the type of diving.

Regards,
Martin


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:24 pm 
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Awesome idea and I'll be able to provide help soon (I should be getting my rEvo in early october :) )

Just on top of my head, what could be great to have is total time for each different unit because that's what you need to know when you want to start your next CCR course. For example you need 50 hours on the rEvo using air dil before you can start your trimix course.

Maybe it could be great to have a box where you put the type of rebreather (SCR, PSCR, mCCR, eCCR and hCCR).

Scrubber usage would be great too, it can be linked to the dive time. It would be great as a backup info on your scrubber usage.

I'm not yet a CCR diver but that's what comes to mind.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:39 pm 
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Great to see you in this thread JF :)

I already added total bottom time for each piece of gear, so that will be in the next release.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:37 pm 
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nick wrote:
Great to see you in this thread JF :)

Thanks you're making me blush :)

I've given some more thoughts and talked to some people and here is the list we've come up with (some items are recurent with what martin said)

-Tank size (2L, 3L heavy, 3L light etc) (I don't feel that start/end pressure is needed as the SAC is irrelevant in CCR-note that I don't know if SCR use it- and the limiting factor is the scrubber)

-Mix (usually only diluent is needed as the other tank is, to my understanding, always 100% O2)

-Bail out : tank size, start/end pressure (can be useful to know your SAC in case of emergency), mix (because it might not be same as your diluent) and that for each Bail out (max 5)

-Scrubber type (sofnolime, other brand)

-Scrubber usage time (great for backup. in the rEvo you write that number inside the cover but it can't hurt to have it written somewhere else)

-Unit (that can go under gear although it would be great to have a special tab for CCR users where a field would be created with the unit name and then we could do either a smart log or use that field to record diving time)

-Type of dive/use (very bad name but that would indicate if you used your rebreather as a manual, hybrid or electronic. For example with the JJ you can only be eCCR so not useful but the rEvo can be either of the 3 so recording how you used it can be nice)

-set points : low, high, deco

-O2 cells (not sure about that one yet. I don't know if the use time of the O2 cell is calculated from the date of purchase of the cell or the time under water. But as scrubber usage time it could serve as a back up info)

Ui wise what I would picture is to create an other tab (like general, gas management etc.) that would be called CCR and would contain all those specific SCR/CCR only info.

My two cents.

P.S: for now I've used the tag field to record my 2 CCR dive tests and then use the tag to create a smart log.


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